Forum:A better deal for more serious topic wikia
(I know people might wonder why I'm putting this here rather than on central Wikia. It's here as a sort of extension of Society gardens. I plan to link to it from central, etc. Philralph @[[w:c:sca21|'sca21']] 07:33, 21 October 2008 (UTC)) I recently saw Jimbo Wales on a (UK) TV programme about USA states in which he talked about how things would look in a couple of hundred years. He may have been talking primarily about Wikipedia, and yes I know that WIkia is not Wikipedia, but is it possible to make a case that some more serious topic wikia have more in common with Wikipedia than wikia about shoot 'em up type games etc? I know not everyone will want to be interested in topics like global warming and similar topics on, for example Sustainable Community Action, Green wikia, etc., but if a better deal for more serious topic WIkia were possible, would not this look to have been good stuff (JImbo put it something like this) from the perspective of two hundred years down the line? When what might be characterised as more aggressive advertising was introduced to Wikia recently the argument was made that it became possible to switch off the ads for signed in users because they represented less than (or around?) only 1 per cent of the total. My impression is that "more serious topic wikia" amount for less than one percent of the total, (perhaps nearer less than one in a thousand?) I know there may be a challenge of deciding what counts as more serious, but surely not an insuperable challenge? Isn't this a case where potential benefits dwarf probable costs? I know that individual users like me can have an ad free experience of editing wikia, but it's the impression given to potential new contributors that really worries me. I haven't got the hard stats to back this up, but in nearly four years of editing wikia most days of the year, the time since the more aggressive advertising seems to have been the worst for attracting new users to SCA wiki. So I'm wondering if its possible to look afresh at some potential alternatives which would give a better deal to more serious topic wikia? If the following options were possible Poll #1 Would you support wikia for more serious topics paid for by donations? Yes No What would be involved to set this up? What would be likely costs? More targeted or sophisticated advertising. By this is meant for example green, local products etc only advertised on Green WIkia etc, rather than the more indiscriminate and potentially inappropriate and offensive kind. (I know that there is an argument that people can complain about inappropriate advertising, but for me this is a non-starter as most of us come here to edit not to spend our time complaining about adverts) Poll #2 Would you support wikia for more serious topics paid for more targeted / sophisticated advertising? Yes No Are there other alternatives it would be good to explore? Philralph @[[w:c:sca21|'sca21']] 07:33, 21 October 2008 (UTC) :Response to Poll #1: There are ads on most commercial sites, so I don't really care what ads pop up here. Also, changing Wikia from a commercial site to a non-profit one will place a lot of stress on the system. Can you actually expect a sigificant amount of users to donate enough money to support something as big as Wikia? This change would greatly restrict the amount of wikis that Wikia can create, Wikia's budget would also be reduced, and the lower pay would reduce the quality of service we receive. -- Michaeldsuarez 14:58, 21 October 2008 (UTC) :Response to Poll #1: If you restrict the size of the advertising group to a single interest group, Wikia would also make less money due the reduction in the size of the advertising goup. Unfortunately, cash is what keeps Wikia running, and as a result, we need as much of it as possible. -- Michaeldsuarez 14:58, 21 October 2008 (UTC) Nice try but... Perhaps Wikia was hopelessly optimistic about their costs and how much income their Google text ads would generate, and perhaps Wikia should have warned people that cold reality might bite later. However, the fact is that it costs serious money to run reliable servers and provide staff to answer even a few basic questions. Also, I accept Wikia's statements that the text ads don't pay much. Put "wikia" into Google news for hits like this Wikia Cuts 10% Of Workforce. Sorry, but there is no chance that donations are going to cover the costs of running a particular wiki (unless you can find one or two really wealthy benefactors who pay everything themselves). In practice, you would be unlikely to get enough donations to cover even the cost of someone at Wikia doing the accounting and answering-of-questions that would result from the donation system. It would be nice if Wikia could get a better class of advertiser for some wikis. That's what their ad complaint page is for. I think it would be reasonable to pursue this suggestion after Wikia has had at least one quarter of profit. --JohnBeckett 04:26, 22 October 2008 (UTC) Response Hey guys. I really appreciate the time that you have put in to writing out your thoughts here. I think that we can all agree that browsing the site is a better experience without the advertisements ... that's why we remove advertisements for the people who are working hard to create the content, and make it easy for anyone else to remove the advertisements as well. We wish we could provide the hosting services that we do on a donation system; however, I am afraid that this is an idea that we have explored in-depth, and it simply isn't as easy as it might sound. Developing, maintaining, and managing a system to handle donations would require significant additional resources. We have discussed this option with the larger Wikia community in the past, and we determined that there simply aren't enough people who would take advantage of such an option for that investment to be worthwhile. We are, however, working to make the advertising less annoying and more relevant in other ways. Our sales team is working hard to sell ads that are relevant to the specific audiences of individual wikis. In the near future, you should start seeing fewer and fewer "remnant" ads, which are where the inappropriate ads sometimes sneak in. (If you see any inappropriate ads, please report them.) And, of course, if you would be interested in buying out the advertisements on your own wiki, I would be happy to put you in touch with our sales team. I hope that answers some of your questions. While I can't go too terribly in-depth in to the research we have done regarding the viability of donation systems, I will be happy to answer any other questions that you might have. Just let me know! --KyleH (talk) 23:00, 23 October 2008 (UTC) if you would be interested in buying out the advertisements on your own wiki :Good point! I won't pursue this because I have a small but bad experience trying to maintain donations. On most wikis, you would have to sweat blood to even get $100 per year, and you have no idea how much whining a $5 contributor can generate. However, if there are some big wikis with philanthropic members, I suppose they could investigate buying the ads! --JohnBeckett 03:50, 26 October 2008 (UTC)